Ban-List Discussion 1/6/2013

So I'm a few days late (exams and such, sue me).

First of all, I want to see some more discussion on Never-Ending Nightmares. Given it got banned pretty quick, do we want to give it an actual test run or let it rot?

Also, having tried the Chaos End Dragon Hand Destruction deck, I think something ought to be done about either it or the cards that are responsible for the turbo in the Deck (Black Ante or Rapid-Fire Spellbook specifically).

Blizzard. The card just warps the format to the point that fast decks have to maindeck outs to it and the protection it can search for itself and slow decks gain a ridiculous tempo-control card the likes of which Royal Oppression only wishes it could be. I like having slower formats, but this card really ought not be allowed to be a 3 copies. I also don't think it can stay unbanned given that it's searchable.

I also think that we ought to consider Lifeforce Shield. The card is frankly too good. Self-replacing protection for any card, and correct usage will always put you ahead in card advantage, and tempo for that matter. 3 copies is way too much given that if you can use more of this than your opponent, you're probably going to win. Should be listed at the very least.

There isn't a lot else on the top of my head, but I feel all these deserve due discussion. Also, feel free to raise concerns about cards on the ban-list or not that also warrant consideration.

don't forget spellcasters can reuse lifeforce to hell and back as long as you have the LP. 1-2 should be fine. doesn't really warp the meta to be at 0.

Blizzard......is insane. a summon limit on crack that can searches defensive cards, and considering how good LCCG countertraps are, makes it really hard to face. not to mention it's searchable as well. 0-1 on this one. But, the side effect of having a much faster meta should be considered.

CED is just nuts, i'll prefer that it's the one that get the boot, not the draw cards. If you negate the first one(especially if you going second), you lost 1 card in your hand, then the opponent can just make the other 2. 0-1 on this one, leaning towards 1 though, since it's a nice option to have.

N-E-N needs a remake.

my gripe with lifeforce is that it is just too good in what it does. it's near impossible to play through a lifeforce, the only real way to break a shielded monster is to chain a scrap destruction. i don't really want a deck to be able to play multiples.

i can agree with ced @1, but spellbook and ante still worry me. that kind of draw power just isn't right imo.

i don't think blizzard should stay in the game. i was maybe biased a little in letting it stay off the last list, but it is frankly the most absurd card not to be banned.

both books and ante makes alt win.dek possible (and dangerous), so yeah some kind of limitation can be used for them.

If blizzard's getting banned,



Chaos T1?

EDIT1: also, depends on how timing are going to be handled, rats to 0?
EDIT2: discuss Ampule and how chaos had to be hit.

the best way to hurt chaos decks without killing them is to either ban or limit dark chaser imo. since heretic is just ass without being milled, chaser is obviously the problem. but given how we treat flash, i think we should limit chaser for now.

i still don't know much about the rats thing, but iirc the consensus was to nerf to one per turn

i'm probably going to limit both black ante and rapid-fire spellbook.

so far changes are:

blizzard (3 to 0)
chaos end dragon (3 to 1)
black ante (3 to 1)
rapid-fire spellbook (3 to 1)
dark chaser (3 to 1)
lifeforce shield (3 to 2)

still looking for other suggestions

i'm probably going to limit both black ante and rapid-fire spellbook.

so far changes are:

blizzard (3 to 0)
chaos end dragon (3 to 1)
black ante (3 to 1)
rapid-fire spellbook (3 to 1)
dark chaser (3 to 1)
lifeforce shield (3 to 2)

still looking for other suggestions

i edited Nightmares

Duplicate spell is banned even with the fix to return cards to the deck instead of graveyard?

i didn't nerf it

I changed it at some point in time

Just noticed... alot of nerfs & buffs are gone

I think they were lost when it was updated with TTTT ;_;

bollocks

I wonder if the damage you take from Black Ante was enough to balance it out. I found, even if you get all 3 in your hand, you'll be taking 2400 damage every turn (which you would only last a maximum of 4 turns in the game).

Do you think the damage should be increased, or should take place during the Standby Phase instead of the End Phase, to tighten up the balance a bit?

The point was, getting quick hand advantage at the cost of dying early if you mess around too long.

Perhaps Draw 2 and take 1000 every Standby Phase would be better?

Wait is this January 6th Banlist or June 1st?

Oh, I lied. Turns out they never were changed or I overwrote them or something. Now I have to do them all over again. #firstworldproblems.

Darkest Hour wrote:I wonder if the damage you take from Black Ante was enough to balance it out. I found, even if you get all 3 in your hand, you'll be taking 2400 damage every turn (which you would only last a maximum of 4 turns in the game).

Do you think the damage should be increased, or should take place during the Standby Phase instead of the End Phase, to tighten up the balance a bit?

The point was, getting quick hand advantage at the cost of dying early if you mess around too long.

Perhaps Draw 2 and take 1000 every Standby Phase would be better?

damage doesn't matter if you win by f/otk

in the reality, Black Ante is just a PoG with some LP penalty slap on it so it is a good choice to hit it as well hitting CED given there still some cards cards to replace the space that was for Black Ante anyway and it wouldn't change too much for the deck if CED were still at 3.