Ban-List Discussion - 1/9/2012

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Post by Ash on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:05 am

Currently under consideration:

-Junk Salvage (3 to 1)
-Reaper Possession (1 to 2)
-Heat Exposure (2 to 3)

Feel free to add to the list or debate over potential listings.

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Post by Leo on Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:44 pm

Iele should definitely go to 1. Plant Attraction could go to 2.

Heat Exposure should stay @2 for now since Plants are becoming good.

Agree with the others though.

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Post by Ash on Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:50 pm

Plants may be becoming decent, but Phoenixians - not quite.

I still maintain we need a longer trial period for Iele/Plant Attraction, though I still believe that a searcher is only as good as it's best target. If Iele were no longer a target, PA targets would (if it were still run, I suspect much less) would be of the more balanced variety.

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Post by Leo on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:25 pm

I agree with Ash. We will do some more testing tomorrow on it.

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Post by ALiCE'S EMOTiON on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:14 pm

Tbh if salvage is at 1 and if the golem is still limited then put Doomsday Golem back in the game at 1 or 2.

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Post by Ash on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:17 pm

I could still Dooms Day FTK with Golem and Salvage banned.

We would have to list a lot of things to bring in Dooms Day for legal play safely.

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Post by ALiCE'S EMOTiON on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:41 pm

3 of the main cards used for that are limited to 1 and if doomsday became limited to 1 I doubt it would happen even a fraction of the time if even at all. Also in case you didn't notice your math was off and you half to have 3x Doomsday to Ftk bud make a vid with the current and suggested limits and prove me wrong, find a way to make it consistent which I doubt. I have looked intO this for a long time, also any deck that can consistently put that many cards in the grave during any point of the game is the problem not Doomsday. What you want to deffend makes it so cards like Exodia can never come to the LCCG, and destroys some creativity making it so a lot of different card can never come here, this may be just an old fools rant but the way Ic this is a card is banned because of a deck can dump it's self into the graveyard saying fuck you to everything else consistently. And god help us if some one ever made a Mega Rock Dragon because by what you did here it would be just as broken, same can be said for Exodia. The problem isn't Doomsday is my point.

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Post by Ash on Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:05 pm

1/2 random Spellcasters, 2-ish Spell Search, Reign of Magic, 1 Dooms Day, 1 card that can return a monster to hand for near non-existant cost, draw cards.

Look, FTK. Again.

For the record, I WOULD like to have Dooms Day Golem off of the ban-list, truly as it gives a win condition for a variety of decks that struggle without, but the fact remains that it is an FTK win condition and there is nothing that will change that unless a lot of other things, including a large amount of draw cards, are placed on the ban list.

You are so stuck on that old video that you can't see that all the time there are potential cards that can aid an FTK using Dooms Day. And more coming with each set.

I don't get your math saying you need 3 Dooms Day - summon having 20 Spells in Grave to burn 6000, bounce it back with something like Mitosis, Summon and burn again. 1 DDG.

You complain at the deck that could dump itself into the grave, but that itself is meaningless as it is not a win condition. You could make a case for a card like Megarock/Gren Maju/similar card, but what they would require would make a much less consistent and inherently fragile deck that has much more counters.

The original deck was built with the sole purpose of drawing and dropping enough cards to set off Dooms Day. Without Dooms Day, it would be meaningless - it would have drawn all those cards but not do anything at all effectively. No defense, and 1 offensive push per game, which, if halted in any way, would cause the deck to lose.

You can not use Exodia as an example to try and say that Dooms Day isn't the problem, simply because it is a card that will only exist to be used in FTKs, and hence must inherently have a problem.

The only way DDG can come back and not have FTK potential is if lots of listing is done to decent Draw cards and cards with any consistent dumping potential. Which, unfortunately is not likely as it would harm many more undermeta decks than it would make in happening.

I would very much like to have closure on this subject, I know you want to have a card you are fond of available to use, but I just can't see any way (outside mentioned heavy listing action) that it could safely come back.

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Post by Seattleite on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:23 pm

can we offer fixes for the cards instead of banlist placements?


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Post by Ash on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:26 pm

We could. I'm just personally opposed to retooling/fixing cards.

I'd also say that implementing and maintaining a banlist gives us more of an actual CCG feel, rather than just a large test set that you test cards in. Maybe an exaggerated example, but you get what I mean.

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Post by ALiCE'S EMOTiON on Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:57 pm

Tbh Snow, I already new things had changed from that video and that chances are it could be done anyways simply because of the shear mass of ours cards that could be used as replacements vs the videos cards. I just wanted to try and get him back but you know to many Ftk possibilities. As for Doomsday having a fix that is going to half to be a negative ghost rider. The way it was made it shall stay as a lesson. Also considering he was a before the reset card it surprised me he was allowed back in but then agin no one found out the Ftk yet. Anyways I'm rambling and that's never good. If he stays banned then so be it, I won't bring the subject up agin. But snow my math was off because of I suck at math. Anyways enough on this subject.

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Post by Leo on Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:39 am

Found this on 2ch. Maybe a sign?

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Post by Alfred on Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:50 am

If we re-purpose all cards that are deemed too powerful, then the ban-list is totally moot and not even worth having. I prefer not to tamper with cards once they are made, as having a ban-list gives you history.

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Post by Ash on Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:32 pm

lolleo

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Post by Ash on Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:14 am

Also, I now feel that Iele has been tested enough to pass judgement. I feel that, although it is certainly ban-worthy, it would cost a lot of Plant-themed decks a lot of protection, as they would be forced into running extra protective Traps due to the relative slow build-up and inconsistent set-up they have. At 1, they have 1 search from Attraction per game and a restrictive recycling effect as well as losing the ability to search multiple copies and be confident of running over, well, anything.

As such, I also feel that Churel Wightwisp also ought to be Limited. It is arguably much more recyclable than Iele will ever be, albeit less searchable. However, the consistent recycling of Churel helps the Deck become the prominent force that it is, and in Limiting this, restricts both consistency and potency, both of itself and when combined with Moroi.

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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:46 am

Ash wrote:Also, I now feel that Iele has been tested enough to pass judgement. I feel that, although it is certainly ban-worthy, it would cost a lot of Plant-themed decks a lot of protection, as they would be forced into running extra protective Traps due to the relative slow build-up and inconsistent set-up they have. At 1, they have 1 search from Attraction per game and a restrictive recycling effect as well as losing the ability to search multiple copies and be confident of running over, well, anything.

As such, I also feel that Churel Wightwisp also ought to be Limited. It is arguably much more recyclable than Iele will ever be, albeit less searchable. However, the consistent recycling of Churel helps the Deck become the prominent force that it is, and in Limiting this, restricts both consistency and potency, both of itself and when combined with Moroi.

I agree with Churel Wightwisp being limited, its recyclable potential give constant loop even each turn, not to mention, even being only to give 1000 ATK but it can stack up using 2 or more for boost. so at 1 will settle it.

also I wonder if there any change for Ampule, given the reason it was because of Mezzo but not sure when I saw Mezzo Rogue is now restricted to Mezzo Synchro though, when at first they were use for Summon Monster of the Maelstrom then we change the Level of them, then they were use to summon GED, Volcana etc afterward.

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Post by Anime Girl References on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:17 am

I think Ampule + Mezzo + Angels = LIGHT supremacy, because not only do they have access to Synchroing, but the advantage of revenge summoning and searching as well.

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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:44 am

Darkest Hour wrote:I think Ampule + Mezzo + Angels = LIGHT supremacy, because not only do they have access to Synchroing, but the advantage of revenge summoning and searching as well.

that sum about it

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Post by Leo on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:08 am

I do agree with Churel Wightwisp, limited would be good for it, maybe even a ban if it continues to prove to be annoying.

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Post by Ash on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:19 am

@Scheath - I have no idea what you're talking about, Mezzo Rogue can still go into a Generic Synchro.

The main factor (for me) that made Ampule banworthy was the ability, at the time, to set up any Mezzo play, or Flash Phoenix/Serpent. Now, it's even more dangerous and as such will not be considered for being moved off its current listing.

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Post by Ash on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:53 am

Junk Salvage - Limited (from Unlimited)
Iele - Limited (from Unlimited)
Reaper Possession - Semi-Limited (from Limited)
Churel Wightwisp - Limited (from Unlimited)
Support Recharge - Semi-Limited (from Limited)
Insane Pierrot - Semi-Limited (from Unlimited)
Candy Reproduction - Semi-Limited (from Limited)

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