Next Phase in Set Creation: Archetypes

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Post by Seattleite on Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:10 pm

Here's how it's going down: 2 archetype slots will be given to people, based on:

* Time you've spent in the CCG
* Number of archetypes you've submitted so far

Slots can have a maximum of 10 cards each. They may be supported, minimully in the next general set. If you want to give your archetype slot to someone else, you can.

So, let's review the # of archetypes everyone has submitted.

WereLord - 2
RD - 1
Leo - 2
Aquamarius - 1
Seattleite - 1
Dylan - 1
Scheath - 1
DH - 1
Ash - 1
OmegaWave - 1
AsianGuy - 0
INH - 0

So, based on the earliest set date from where their archetypes were released, and also time spent in the CCG, and generic set participation, archetype slots go to Me and AsianGuy Me because Tidals were back in NWOR, and AsianGuy since he's submitted cards but has no archetypes yet.
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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:15 pm

Oh cool. So would I just post them here? Also, what about INH? He doesn't seem to have any archetypes up.

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Post by Seattleite on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:11 pm

INH didn't submit any cards in our sets yet, so that's why you had priority.

If he's still active he can get slots next time (if it's my decision to make)
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Post by DIGITAL on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:09 pm

Can we allow 3 Archtypes? Because i ended up missing a set and i havent had one in a while. If not its fine.
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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:27 pm

No. 34 Terror-Byte wrote:Can we allow 3 Archtypes? Because i ended up missing a set and i havent had one in a while. If not its fine.

well you had submitted djinn monsters in Ancient Redemption, but basically Sea probably the only one or one of the couple of members who hadn't submit an archetype in a long while.

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Post by ALiCE'S EMOTiON on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:30 am

Sea the only problem I have is with Archtypes like X1. They have 12 different monsters and 3 S/T cards. and there are several Archtypes with more than 10 cards for the archtype already. So what are you going to propose to counter this? Besides 10 cards is too small for an Archtype espically if you consider how many cards you can make that can run off of 1 single card. The best example of a lot of different monsters running off the same card are Sanctuary in the Sky Decks. Granted this is from the TCG but can still be used as an example simply Because you have smaller Sub-Archtypes inside 1 giant Archtype. You have Counter Trap Fairys, Agents, Archlords, Synthetic Angels, and several other different Fairy sub-archtypes that all run off 1 card that couldn't be made here just because of the 10 card limit. In a sense limiting down to 15 was a harsh hit to us but 10 is kind of rediculous just because it kills Creativity. Granted I can understand if an Archtype Is starting to become like the TCGs HERO archtype but here it seems to much like a pain in the butt TBH. In my oppion it should be you submit the Archtype Over time to avoid us being swamped by 1 single Archtypes cards. but over time cards to Archtypes aren't as good any more and at times need new support to get back on their feet in stead of watching them die off. This plan also makes Broken cards in Archtypes and shows what makes them win more edvident to us so we can appropriately adjust to the archtypes and make something that could ruin the CCG if left unchecked to long be fixed asap. Granted I know quite a few of you wont agree but, in my mind that is what 1 of the key factors of the rest occouring was ment to prevent. but anyways I'm sure I've gotten my point across so you knowwhat I'm going to say now???


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Post by DIGITAL on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:10 am

Cute turtle and I don't want an archetype anymore Razz
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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:15 am

I personally think 10 is a very reasonable number for an archetype lest it becomes a toolbox archetype or loses the entire archetype status. Many archetype in the TCG started out with 10 or less and build up in successive sets. If I'm allowed to support existing archetypes, then 10 is fine for a new one. The nox archetype for example has around 6 cards, but each card contributes to the theme and strategy masterfully.

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Post by Seattleite on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:57 am

Artorias wrote:Sea the only problem I have is with Archtypes like X1. They have 12 different monsters and 3 S/T cards. and there are several Archtypes with more than 10 cards for the archtype already. So what are you going to propose to counter this? Besides 10 cards is too small for an Archtype espically if you consider how many cards you can make that can run off of 1 single card. The best example of a lot of different monsters running off the same card are Sanctuary in the Sky Decks. Granted this is from the TCG but can still be used as an example simply Because you have smaller Sub-Archtypes inside 1 giant Archtype. You have Counter Trap Fairys, Agents, Archlords, Synthetic Angels, and several other different Fairy sub-archtypes that all run off 1 card that couldn't be made here just because of the 10 card limit. In a sense limiting down to 15 was a harsh hit to us but 10 is kind of rediculous just because it kills Creativity. Granted I can understand if an Archtype Is starting to become like the TCGs HERO archtype but here it seems to much like a pain in the butt TBH. In my oppion it should be you submit the Archtype Over time to avoid us being swamped by 1 single Archtypes cards. but over time cards to Archtypes aren't as good any more and at times need new support to get back on their feet in stead of watching them die off. This plan also makes Broken cards in Archtypes and shows what makes them win more edvident to us so we can appropriately adjust to the archtypes and make something that could ruin the CCG if left unchecked to long be fixed asap. Granted I know quite a few of you wont agree but, in my mind that is what 1 of the key factors of the rest occouring was ment to prevent. but anyways I'm sure I've gotten my point across so you knowwhat I'm going to say now???


But, those archetypes were first submitted as 10 cards then built up over time, like you said. Noxes, Phoenixians, etc. all have been continuously supported over time, and so can the x1. The 10 card limit is to put caps on a flood of archetypes, and archetypes and generic cards must be kept at a ratio. Over time they may be built upon.

Besides, choosing 10 cards out of the archetype gives you a chance to test them before you dump the entire archetype out.
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Post by Insert Name Here on Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:03 am

I'm active, but i log in at relatively inconvenient times like when no one is on.

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Post by Seattleite on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:09 am

Whenever you want to post them AsianGuy, you can. We're delayed anyway and this idea is just getting a kick start.

We also need a set name.

Next generic set will come out 3 weeks after we post our archetypes (up to change)
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Post by DIGITAL on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:56 am

So no tourney from DODM?
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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:26 am

|Gravity Construct|0|GRV|Machine/Effect|Earth|4||1400|1800|When this card is Normal Summoned: Increase the Level of all monsters you control by 1. When this card is destroyed by battle: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower “Gravity” monster from your Deck and banish this card.|

|Gravity Soldier|1|GRV|Machine/Effect|Earth|4||1600|1800|During each of your Standby Phases: Increase this card's Level by 1. If this card battles a monster with a Level that is less than this card's Level: Destroy the monster without applying damage calculation. If this card is destroyed: banish it.|

|Gravity Manipulator|2|GRV|Machine/Effect|Earth|4||1000|1900|When this card is Summoned: Switch it to Defense Position and add 1 “Gravity” card except “Gravity Manipulator” from your Deck to your hand. During each of your Standby Phases: Increase the Level of 1 face-up monster you control by 2. If this card is destroyed: banish it.|

|Gravity Sentinel|3|GRV|Machine/Effect|Earth|3||0|2100|When this card is Summoned: Switch it to Defense Position. During each of your Standby Phases: Increase this card's Level by 1. Monsters your opponent controls with a Level that is less than this card's Level cannot declare an attack. If this card is destroyed: Banish it.|

|Gravity Golem|4|GRV|Machine/Effect|Earth|6||2400|1800|You can banish 1 “Gravity” monster you control to Special Summon this card from your hand. During each of your Standby Phases: Increase this card’s Level by 2 for each monster you control. If another "Gravity" monster you control would be destroyed: Decrease this card's Level by 4 instead. If this card is destroyed: Banish it and add 1 of your banished “Gravity” monsters to your hand.|

|Gravity Acceleration|5|GRV|Spell Card|Spell||Normal|||Reduce the Level of 1 “Gravity” monster you control by 6: Draw 2 cards. (Monsters must have min. 1 Level).|

|Gravity Shockwave|6|GRV|Spell Card|Spell||Quick-Play|||Reduce the Level of 1 monster you control by sets of 4. For every 4 Levels reduced: Send 1 card on the field to the Graveyard.|

|Gravity Recharge|7|GRV|Spell Card|Spell||Normal|||Add 1 of your banished “Gravity” monsters to your hand.|

|Gravity Force|8|GRV|Spell Card|Spell||Normal|||Reduce the Level of 1 monster your opponent controls by up to 3 and increase the Level of 1 monster you control by the same amount. If the Level of a monster is reduced to 0 by this effect: Send it to the Graveyard.|

|Gravity Guardian|9|GRV|Machine/XYZ/Effect|Earth|4||1800|2400|
2 Level 6 monsters
Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; Send 1 card on the field to the Graveyard.|


Last edited by AsianGuy1137 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Seattleite on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:32 am

That's 11 cards, and the last | is unnecessary (that's Duel Portal coding)

@ Dylan - guess not now, but we can have it later
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Post by DIGITAL on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:47 am

I'm making a gravity deck o.o
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Post by Seattleite on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:51 am

|Insistent Idealist|1|GRV|Psychic/Effect|Wind|2||700|700|This card is not destroyed in battle once per turn. Once per turn, you can activate the following effect: Your opponent looks through your deck and Special Summons 1 monster, except "Insistent Idealist" to your side of the field. If they summon a non-"Insistent" monster, destroy all monsters you control.|

|Insistent Idiot|2|GRV|Spellcaster/Effect|Light|5||0|0|This card's effect is negated if any cards in your Graveyard are not "Insistent" or "Insistency" cards. When this card is Normal Summoned, return all cards in your Graveyard to your Deck, then draw a number of cards equal to half the amount returned (rounded down). Once per turn, declare a number, and destroy all monsters on the field with that level.|

|Insistent Iormungand|3|GRV|Dragon/Effect|Dark|4||1700|600|Neither player can skip their Main Phase 2. This card cannot be Summoned during your Main Phase 2. During each player's Main Phase 2, the opponent of the turn player controls all cards on their Field and in their Hand, Graveyard, Deck, Extra Deck, and Banished Zone. |

|Insistency|4|GRV|Trap Card|Trap||Continuous|||During either player's turn, once per turn, the opponent of that player can pay 500 life points and declare 1 Card Name. The turn player discards 1 card in their hand with that Card Name. They do not reveal their hand.|

|Insistent Ibex|5|GRV|Beast/Effect|Earth|4||1600|0|If this card is destroyed and it hasn't attacked, your opponent cannot Summon until their next End Phase. If this card is in the Graveyard, during your opponent's End Phase, you can banish this card from your Graveyard to destroy a number of opponent's monsters on the field up to the number of their monsters tributed, discarded, or used as material for the summon of a monster.|

|Insistent Inchworm|6|GRV|Insect/Effect|Earth|1||400|400|This card's effect is negated if any cards in your Graveyard are not "Insistent" or "Insistency" cards. Gain control of any monster your opponent summons until the End Phase.|

|Insistent Ifrit|7|GRV|Fiend/Effect|Fire|4||1000|1000|During your opponent's turn, if they control more monsters than the number of cards in their hand, you can discard this card. Until the end of the turn, every monster that attacks this turn is returned to their hand, and halve the battle damage you take.|

|Insistent Inoculant|8|GRV|Spell Card|Spell||Normal|||Both players discard 1 Spell Card, 1 Trap Card and 1 Monster from their hand. You cannot set Spell/Trap cards the turn you activate this card. You cannot activate this card on the first turn.|

|Insistent Invocation|9|GRV|Trap Card|Trap||Normal|||Activate only in a turn that your opponent has activated 2 or more card effects. Randomly Special Summon 1 "Insistent" monster from your hand and destroy 1 Card your opponent controls. |

|Insistent Irresistibility|10|GRV|Spell Card|Spell||Quick-Play|||Tribute 1 "Insistent" monster. Randomly select 1 monster in your opponent's Extra Deck. Special Summon it to your side of the field. If it is an Xyz monster, treat this card as Xyz material. If it cannot be summoned by this effect, send it to the Graveyard.|
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Post by Anime Girl References on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:58 am

They seem nice.

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Post by Seattleite on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:00 am

Darkest Hour wrote:They seem nice.

why thank you Smile
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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:10 am

Oh lol... I'm removing collapse then. Sorry forgot that Construct was 0.

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Post by Anime Girl References on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:49 am

I just wouldn't know what to play them as because my ability to form deck skeletons is sadly impossible unless I grab the deck and playtest it.

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Post by Seattleite on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:41 pm

Darkest Hour wrote:I just wouldn't know what to play them as because my ability to form deck skeletons is sadly impossible unless I grab the deck and playtest it.

I would say, from no previous experience at all, you would need x3 Shuffle Strategics, and totally deck out on Insistent cards. You'll need other cards that Banish themselves / return themselves to the deck/ etc. I also am going to release more later.

Let's give Gravity and Insistent some time to be looked at, then i'll add them to DODM.
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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:44 pm

Most defs - Gravity Manipulator into Golem combo can create a pretty nasty loop, especially if you main 3 Recharge. Might have to limit one of them and semi the other.

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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:46 pm

hmm we have ot see how it goes.

for the insistent archetype, somehow it feel powerful and not at the same time, i dunno it like it conflicted with both feelings

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Post by Ash on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:31 am

I'm just going to say that no card should enter the card pool in a state where it may already have to be listed. In my opinion, either the cards are submitted in a balanced state, or they shouldn't be entered at all.

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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:44 am

Ash wrote:I'm just going to say that no card should enter the card pool in a state where it may already have to be listed. In my opinion, either the cards are submitted in a balanced state, or they shouldn't be entered at all.
If that were the case, at least half the archetypes out there would be unplayable, and cards like Solemn Judgment, Warning, Dustshoot, Heavy Storm, Sangan, etc... should never have been made. A card shouldn't solely be judged on its listing (apart from banned cards). Making cards that can be good but also unlimited narrows the range of possibilities for design whereas a card listing can limit the scope of of availability without sacrificing its usefulness. Saying a card shouldn't have to be listed might as well be tantamount to saying that the banlist shouldn't exist, and that all cards listed should have never been made.

I've been able to test my archetype pretty thoroughly, and they're somewhere in tier 2 by OCG standards (more lower half than upper half). The Manipulator combo is kinda similar to Sacreds (Leonix into searcher into Zenmaines/Rank 3 with search) but it's really not anything ridiculous and can be dealt with fairly well with already existing cards, namely the traps. It really comes down to how restrictive you want to make it. Zombies, for example, had some crazy combos with Moroi and still do with the Zombie-themed Kalut that allows them to rapidly gain field control and maintain advantage while other archetypes out there don't have as easy of a time to setup their combos or recover. If you want to make Gravity tier 3 or worse, you could remove those cards. If you want Gravity to be at least somewhat competitive, then I think the cards should be included even if they might need a listing of some kind. I personally don't want to have to revise any of them except for Manipulator (maybe NS for search only/restrict search to monsters or just spells/traps).

This is my opinion which is always subject to discussion. I still consider myself to be relatively unfamiliar with the playstyle of the CCG which I mostly attribute to the inexperience I have with the different decks on here. Maybe I just need to duel more, but I really have no idea what the most competitive and most uncompetitive ones are. I recall seeing two Flash cards being limited and Ampule being banned, but I've never had any experience with them so I can't say I follow the reasoning. So to summarize, I just need to duel more, but I'm going to be really busy this upcoming week so please be patient with me.

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