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Post by Ash on Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:06 pm

Just looked up the banlist again. Few problems with it.

Chariot of Helios, Enchanting Circle and Mind Storm have been listed for as long as I've been here.
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Helios is a cool card and saves itself during your opponents turn, but I have no idea why it should be Limited. The game at the moment has more than enough capability for this to be back in multiple copies and not destroy the meta.

Enchanting Circle I guess is the hardest to argue of the 3, but have any of you really used it lately? It's a fine card and all, and with Xyz's floating around has even more practical use. But I would like to see, for at least a short while, what kind of impact it would have if we could main-deck 1 more copy.

Mind Storm. Absolute mass hand draining. Its only use really is as a last-chance out to your opponent. I have never seen the need to use this at all, when there's so many other cards more capable of controlling your opponents field. I'd like to think this could be unlimited.
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Another card on the Limited list is good ol' Skullblade. Let's face it, with Flash severely hindered (meaning less Flashwind monster spam) and ID's beginning to wane drastically with the increased speed of the game, I'd say it's as good a time as any to give them at least one copy of their best card back.

Twin Double Crossers was a card Limited shortly after my arrival. Once a staple, I've found that it's hard to fit in to a great deal of decks. There's no doubting the effect it can have on a duel, but with so much monster removal about, I feel this could come back to 3, giving certain decktypes a new lease of life, while not being quite the game-changer it once was.
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On to the Semi'd cards, the first thing I'd like to bring up is Essence Ice Lady. Definitely the best monster they have, but with both Ampule and Flash Serpent being hit heavily by the banlist, the Archetype has lost an awful lot of consistency. Perhaps the deck could be made stronger if they got Ice Lady back, though I doubt even then they'd be breaking the meta.

Forced Slumber is the first card so far that I feel needs to be banned. I'm sure you all know why.
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There is only one card not listed that I feel (at the time of posting, which is 4:03 AM) is not listed, but surely should be. Phoenixian Flower is possibly THE most insane card in the CCG. Can Synchro with it from the hand, or from the field and follow up by Special Summoning any combo peice the deck needs. Or just something to hammer home that advantage. It's just insane. I honestly think it should be banned.

So yeah, anything you agree/disagree with or anything else you think needs list attention, just say.
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Post by Seattleite on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:09 pm

I think I agree with pretty much everything you said. Except possibly skullblade - I think ID's are at a good place right now and letting skull blade @3 would just throw off the balance again. Maybe @2 might be ok...

And ah yes Mind Storm. I got some good new deck ideas that would need it... definitely a good decision imo =)

Now if Twin Double Crossers and Enchanting Circle are loosened up I expect a shift of power to the weenie decks, and I think it's a good shift in power anyways. Not just because I run them but because they haven't really had the spotlight Razz But just to let you know I would definitely be running TDC @3 and Enchanting Circle @2.
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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:06 pm

pretty much. and I'm begging for the forced slumber to be banned or @1 even if it have to! D:

I may check out if something to discuss to add.

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Post by Anime Girl References on Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:39 pm

+1 Ban on the Forced Slumber.

After taking some time away from yugioh, and cooking eggs for 2 months, I have had time to think. Sure, it may be a very good card, but in general, it's too good.

After being on the bad end of a Book of Moon (finally, almost nobody uses that card or I win before it ever gets activated), that bad things happen to good people.

Let me get the effect straight though, it is in fact read as the following, right?

Flip 1 face-up monster on the field into face-down Defense Position. You can only activate 1 "Transcending Curse of Forced Slumber" a turn, and cannot activate another until the End Phase of the 2nd Turn since activation. After this card is sent to the Graveyard or is resolved successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck other than "Transcending Curse of Forced Slumber" and set it on the field.


Because if not then you have been playing with the wrong card a hell of a lot longer than you guys ever had to since THIS was the version that it became after much discussion.
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Post by Ash on Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:36 am

We've never played with that version. :/

Flip 1 face-up monster on the field into face-down Defense Position. After this card resolves successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card (except "Transcending Curse of Forced Slumber") in your deck and set it on the field.

Is what we have atm.

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Post by Anime Girl References on Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:08 am

Well, whatever people feels is needed, a rewrite or a ban.

Generally I want to go with ban because redesigning cards that are part of sets kind of bugs me a bit and I would rather see them barred from use after creation and save retooling and rewriting in the pre-dev process, unless it's a lack of clarity that is making the card bad. This card is pretty clear on what it's doing, so the only way for it to be salvaged would be to be rewritten entirely, which of course, is just not worth it.

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Post by Ash on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:35 pm

Coming back to this thread for a sec, because Golems.

Dynamite and Rebuild. Cards are just fucking nuts. No explanations necessary (though can be provided upon request).

I think they should both be Limited tbqh.

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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:37 pm

explanations are necessary.

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Post by Ash on Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:53 pm

Mk.

Golem Rebuid
Dynamite Golem

Golem Rebuild is perhaps the main offender due to how it sets up pretty much every combo in the deck while gaining +'s simply for using it.

A basic Golem play is to summon Golem Striker, which in turn Summons a Golem Architect or Golem Striker from the Deck. Nice +1 to start with. Then Rebuild allows the deck to explode from the very first turn, you Rebuild Striker/Architect to hand, and SS Totem Golem straight from the Deck, or Graveyard if already sent for Dynamite. He let's you add a Rock from deck to the hand. Quick combo's and field control. It's worth noting that going for Architect if you opened multiple Rebuilds allows Architect to Special Summon itself as a Rebuild target again, allowing for more field advantage.

On to Dynamite, this is what you'll regularly search with Totem. It's self-SS'ing Tuner to begin with, and I despise that I made it so. It also deals with dead-drawn Golems by replacing it and the discarded Golem, quickly setting up Junk Salvage plays. It's an insane, searchable, Rebuild-perfect draw engine that doubles up as being able to spam Lv 8 Synchro's all over the place.

Rebuild and Dynamite @1 greatly reduces the speed the deck has (which fed a short-lived FTK, yes it was that fast), and promotes more skillful play with the deck.

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Post by Seattleite on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:43 pm

Golem banlist stuff seems ok and well explained to me. That is if you're sure a fix is not desirable instead Smile
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Post by Ash on Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:40 pm

I don't like fixes tbqh. And we've seen with other stuff that fixes don't always have the intended effect.

I'd rather we just list the things that are most problematic.

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Post by AsianGuy1137 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:53 pm

Is moroi getting limited/semi'd a reasonable request?

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Post by Ash on Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:13 pm

It's something we've looked into in the past, I can assure you.

What became of it was Red Moon Rabisu becoming Limited and Moroi being "put on bail", so to speak. If we can say decisively that it's too abusable/overpowered for the current game state, then yes, we can list it.

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Post by Ash on Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:06 pm

Implemented all Ban List changes moved Moroi to the "In Consideration" section.

Anything else we have a problem with while I'm keeping myself busy?

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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:03 am

Yes you forgot to take out forced slumber out of semi-limit lol. Even though rabisu was a pain at 3 but now another abuse is churel, IMO I think the true case lies in Moroi since it can get rabisu and churel to use their effect quite often. Maybe rabisu @3, Moroi @1 and churel @2 or 2, 1 and 3. Just see what happen afterward. Or maybe 1, 1, 3 :S

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Post by Ash on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:30 am

I'll fix the Forced Slumber bit, thought I covered all that.

Rabisu can be abused heavily outside Zombies, I think it should stay @1.
Churel is a self-recycling Gem-Merchant, I think it may need list attention at some point.
Moroi, being the main combo enabler could see also list attention, but I'd rather not kill off Zombie decks by hampering them so much.

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