Card Design Discussion: -1s

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Post by EMSOUP on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:34 am

Just asking on you guys, in card design, what does it takes to have a -1 that still make the card usable?

-1 here actually means -1s, not those chainable cards, but i mean straight -1s like Foolish Burial.
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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:01 pm

Bold Statements:
A card that is sent to the Graveyard, that can pull itself from the Graveyard, is not a -1, but instead a +0.
A card that is banished, that can unbanish itself, is also a +0.


Basically, Hand/Field are not the only places +/- can occur, just the most common.

Having 2 cards in your hand, none on the field, and having 1 Plaguespreader 3 Necro Gardnas in your Graveyard wouldn't neccesarily mean you're bound to lose.

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Post by Seattleite on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:22 pm

Yeah, also I think the chance of netting potential +'s with a card like foolish burial is the majority, if not the entirety, of the reason of running -1s.

Foolish burial on Necro Gardna is sort of a meh move, unless you happen to protect your stardust dragon so you can Smashing Ground their monster the next turn and win games!!!1111! (hypothetically speaking)

But using Hieroglyph Lithograph is so unlikely to + you anything it's worthless.


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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:33 pm

Okay, maybe Foolish Burial'ing Zeta Reticulant would be a +0 since it makes tokens while in the Grave.

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Post by EMSOUP on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:13 pm

should tokens be counted though?
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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:17 pm

Tokens are counted anyway since people call Scapegoat a +3, right?

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Post by EMSOUP on Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:37 pm

i think tokens are a form of low quality +1s.

I guess +s and -s have quality modifier.
Like drawing/topdecking is lowquality
While searching is high quality.
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Post by ALiCE'S EMOTiON on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:24 pm

EMSOUP wrote:i think tokens are a form of low quality +1s.

I guess +s and -s have quality modifier.
Like drawing/topdecking is lowquality
While searching is high quality.
 As well as cheap Destruction/removal for little or no cost

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Post by EMSOUP on Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:40 pm

ah, yes. Destruction should fall into high quality +s.
except those like depraved extortion.

Back on minuses, what kind of cards that does not deserve being minuses and what cards does deserve being minus?

for example, Lifeforce does not deserve to be a break even.
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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Weird, Lifeforce Shield was praised for being a solution to the abundance of destruction that was difficult to survive through.

Now, it's the game winner.
Well, not game winner but a throw-in for every deck.

Then again that's not bad.

Well, it's not good either.

It's weird.

Great for saving one key card from destruction, or even three. It's a perfect shield against mass wipes.

The problem is, there are absolutely no good mass wipe cards that are commonly applied other than Phantom's Decision, or any removal that extends beyond one card that is efficient.

While it's a step in the right direction, it's step is so far away from it's source that the distance the step took makes it feel overwhelming.

To explain it, it's like early humans jumping from hunting with stone to hunting with steel. The LCCG is constantly evolving, which is what I like, but so far, there are very few cards out there that can rival this card's protection blanket. A good defensive card that doesn't force you to pay out the ass or give your opponent more breathing room to drop you to 0 faster. Current removal, while not over-abundant, is also primitive, somewhat. We may not need cards like Raigeki, or Judgment Dragon to be prevalent, but there's gotta be more oomph to give cards like this a reason to exist.

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Post by EMSOUP on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:35 pm

it'll be quite fair if it doesn't have the draw one part.

With the draw, it has become the best blanket protection in the game, that'll never be a bad play even if you activated it willy nilly(bar the lp).
No risks in activating it, and the advantage it gained is too big. Even if it's not a direct advantage like plusses, the momentum it shifted for your sake is crazy.
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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:59 pm

You: Protect cards, lose LFS, gain 1 card.
Opponent: Activated removal, removal was ineffective, then sent to GY.

You: Protect cards, lose LFS.
Opponent: IDT is nullified, lose IDT.

So yeah, without the draw 1 card it would still be a great addition, without the whole "why would you NOT use this card" bugger.

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