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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:15 pm

[03:32:31] @ Ash : if i had more authority, things would be much better organized imo

[03:33:11] No. 34 Terror-Byte : As in?

[03:33:20] @ Ash : there'd be solid dates for set releases, organized ban-list discussion, set times for buff/nerfs/erratas

[03:33:35] @ Ash : everything would be a lot smoother

[03:34:29] @ Ash : a new set every 2 months, a new banlist every 4, buffs/nerfs/erratas every month, a fortnight for set submissions, etc

We urgently need this kind of thing to happen. Nobody knows when sets are any more. There's no real discussion on it, just blind guessing. People ask, "Hey Ash, do you know when the next set is?", and it's like a knife in my gut when I have to reply, "I don't know, we have to hear from Leo before we can be sure."

Looking back at the Buffs, Nerfs, Errata's - some of those fixes were left for months. I think one of them may have even been left for a year. It's just not right, people have been expressing concerns regarding these cards only to be ignored. Or even worse, to first be acknowledged and then ignored. You may as well just be flipping people off.

While I do somewhat see some effectiveness in our way of dealing with the banlist (deal with a problem as and when it becomes apparent), there's also the "official" approach in having formats seperated by banlists. It's more a suggestion for the feel of validity compared to the TCG.

I'm sure we all know that CCG's aren't for everyone. In my time here, I've seen a lot of members come and go. But as it is, there's what? 10 people maximum here? I know that most of us are here for the long haul, but I do worry sometimes that we're not very friendly towards newcomers. In order to rectify this, Ifeel we need to establish some order in this chaotic little place. I would also endorse a move back to C&O in YCM - let's face it, Written Cards is the most dead section in YCM, and there's a very, very slim chance of getting back in RC due to Icy being a complete douchebag (and I have very little faith in the members I'm sure will become new CC moderators).

As has already been established, some people come here for the friends we've made here, some are here to see their cards in a competitive environment, and some people are here for the whole thing. But, we are the members of a card game, and the low amounts of games played is something that concerns me greatly. I feel that if there is less duelling, then everything else will also slowly grind to a standstill. I believe Evan once said that new sets are the life blood of a CCG. I understand and accept this, but without any duelling what is the point of going through all these sets? CCG's exist primarily to see players try their creations in a competitive environment, it is a place where cardmaking and duelling go hand-in-hand. To have one without the other is to see a CCG fail.

LCCG is, despite what Alfred said or thought, a place governed by its people. But I would liken it to British Parliament, the people have their say, but above them is a greater power that has the ability to change things for the better. And unless this one greater power decides to intervene, these things that concern me will begin to concern others. I feel that if I can get the go-ahead to implement some of my ideas, then we can make the LCCG great again.

This place is slowly failing, dare I say dying. Let me make it live.
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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:54 pm

Absolutely, go for it. I love spontaneity. For now on, if you have ideas or anything, just do it (with some notice beforehand of course)

But as inspiring as this topic is, it's vague.... what ideas do you want to implement? How are you going to make people duel more?

I have been trying to impose systems before but they have been rejected. Addressed to everyone, this is a suggestion if you want things to be done: If someone has an idea, jump into it and try it.

So, explain further please
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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:05 pm

[03:34:29] @ Ash : a new set every 2 months, a new banlist every 4, buffs/nerfs/erratas every month, a fortnight for set submissions, etc

At the very least, I want something to this effect. A system where everyone knows exactly what is going on at any given time.

I would also endorse a move back to C&O in YCM - let's face it, Written Cards is the most dead section in YCM, and there's a very, very slim chance of getting back in RC due to Icy being a complete douchebag (and I have very little faith in the members I'm sure will become new CC moderators).

Probably the main 2 points. Get a system in place for sets, submissions, card errata, tournaments and the like. Get in a place where we are going to be seen, and try and make the place more enticing for new members.

Also, with a bit of help from members, we get the wikia up to date, we get card tips in there, deck skeletons, the works.

As for dueling more, it's a hard kind of thing to motivate in people, but who knows, maybe the kind of things I want to happen might just get people interested again.

And hell, I'm not that bothered about rejection. If I have to, I'll go over Leo's head on this.

What I'm trying to avoid is the spontaneous decisions, the overflow from submissions, the bans and changes that happen without a general consensus.

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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:08 pm

Well, what did you think of my system?

We just did a phase of 70ish cards (a little large but oh well), next comes 1 or 2 10-card-or-less archetypes. This was supposed to happen 2 weeks after set submission.

With that, you can mark your calendars Smile
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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:11 pm

Elaborate. The problem here, is that there are people who knew nothing about DODM or the archetype aspect to follow. *Hint - I'm one of them.

I turn up one day and suddenly there's a new set and the only people who knew what was happening were you and Leo. And we know what happened next.

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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:15 pm

augh! D; seems like the word didn't get out enough.

Well now you know our "secret" plans, so how about it?

I was also thinking maybe the set date could be manipulated by # of duels... say, next set begins after 50 total singles. well, those are my 2 ideas.



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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:22 pm

But you must see what I'm getting at now, suddenly an idea was thrown out and quickly turned into a reality without half of the active member base knowing the idea had been established in the first place.

I don't know if this "secret plan" is meant to be a permanent cycle, who's going to be submitting archetypes, when you're planning on the archetypes being released, whether it needs Leo's presence to take place and more.

No-one but you or Leo seems to know anything.

As for set date being manipulated by duels, it sounds frankly awful. Whichever way it is taken by members, we'll either be waiting forever for sets to be started, or waiting a week or so and just be flooded with cards.

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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:36 pm

alright, I get it -_- I didn't let enough people know. It was only supposed to be permanent if people liked it. Archetype slots are handled the usual way (whoever hasn't had one for a while).

"As for set date being manipulated by duels, it sounds frankly awful. Whichever way it is taken by members, we'll either be waiting forever for sets to be started, or waiting a week or so and just be flooded with cards."

It's like the economy. If there are many duels, then cards have been tested and a flood of cards are OK because we assume OP'd or UP'd cards have been changed. If there aren't enough duels, not enough testing has happened. Besides, most of us are card mongers eager to dump our 1000+ sets, a manipulated set date is perfect motivation,.
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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:44 pm

Floods of card are never OK.

"waiting a week or so and just be flooded with cards."
If people are that eager to dump cards, then crap will get insanely broke insanely fast.

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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:45 pm

Ash wrote:Floods of card are never OK.

"waiting a week or so and just be flooded with cards."
If people are that eager to dump cards, then crap will get insanely broke insanely fast.

They are if they're tested enough. Isn't that the reason we slow sets down in the first place? To encourage testing?
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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:50 pm

If you look at other CCG's, one of the main reasons they didn't last is that they just let cards roll in at an insane rate. You can test all you want but sometimes crap gets under the radar. We've seen this happen even here.

If, god forbid, we do let in cards at that kind of rate, people aren't going to test all the possibilities. I know this for a fact, as people will normally stick to what they know (like INH with Zombies), or their own cards (like Scheath). Eventually, there will be more broken stuff than we know what to do with.

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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:56 pm

Ash wrote:If you look at other CCG's, one of the main reasons they didn't last is that they just let cards roll in at an insane rate. You can test all you want but sometimes crap gets under the radar. We've seen this happen even here.

If, god forbid, we do let in cards at that kind of rate, people aren't going to test all the possibilities. I know this for a fact, as people will normally stick to what they know (like INH with Zombies), or their own cards (like Scheath). Eventually, there will be more broken stuff than we know what to do with.

You're taking this too much at face value. If things don't work and broken stuff gets under the radar, we can extend the set date for fixes. If only a few people duel we can cut the set date sooner. I am only here to suggest the *possibility* of a duel-manipulated set date. Just the raw concept.
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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:04 pm

All I'm doing is pointing out a trend. I maintain that all we need for new sets is just a regular schedule. Short discussion for Archetype slots, set name, release date and anything else deemed necessary, followed by a week or 2 for submission, followed by the release of the set. All this occurring on a regular basis, of (i think) ideally 2 months per set.

Something like this: Set is released. 1 month and a half later, begin discussion for the set decide on theme (possibly), name, archetypes, amount of cards in set, any additional focus for support. Following this, open submissions, once all spaces have been taken, the set can be released then.

Little hassle, nice and simple. People can know for sure when the set is, what is happening regarding it. No carrot.
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Post by Seattleite on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:07 pm

But you still haven't said a word about my first idea...

Seattleite wrote:Well, what did you think of my system?

We just did a phase of 70ish cards (a little large but oh well), next comes 1 or 2 10-card-or-less archetypes. This was supposed to happen 2 weeks after set submission.
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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:18 pm

I was under the impression that it is still underway.

In addition to that:

when you're planning on the archetypes being released, whether it needs Leo's presence to take place

I want every detail. If your idea is still going ahead, then I refuse to be left in the dark.

Who will get archetype slots, when will they be submitting, how many cards is their limit, exactly how many archetypes, if they can support existing archetypes. Anything else I've missed, I expect to be filled in on. Ideas are fine and welcomed, but if they're going to be taken any further I want them fully fleshed out.

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Post by Ash on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:20 pm

Secret plans are good only to those who know about them. I want everyone to constantly be in the loop.

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Post by ALiCE'S EMOTiON on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:46 am

Go for it.

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Post by CNo.101 S.H.Death Knight on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:38 am

Whoever push on the progress of LCCG wins and that's that, just as long as someone who constantly active and able to proceed the scheduled events or projects. So we know who going to be ze winner Very Happy

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Post by Seattleite on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:02 pm

Ash wrote:

when you're planning on the archetypes being released 2 weeks after a 70ish card set


whether it needs Leo's presence to take place Nope

Who will get archetype slots Decided by moderators and community based on # of archetypes they have already submitted

when will they be submitting um... 2 weeks after a 70ish card set

how many cards is their limit, 10

exactly how many archetypes, if they can support existing archetypes 1 archetype. Support for existing archetypes will be allowed, in moderation, for the 70ish card set.

Anything else I've missed, I expect to be filled in on Hey, don't blame me if you missed something but never asked
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Post by Ash on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:23 pm

If you're going to take your "secret plans" and not be around to let people know then you can't try and shift the blame to me. You weren't here, Leo wasn't here, whatever had been told to Scheath, Dylan and the likes was so vague that neither were able fill me in on the details either.

So, you want 2 archetypes dropped at once on the same day and then released on the same day? I feel that cards need to be screened better, believe me I know quite well what happens when only 1 or 2 people check cards - I've let through a few suspect cards myself, as I'm sure you have too. A few days is all it takes, let people submit their cards, let people voice any concerns, make sure shit doesn't hit the set file in a state that will break things.

The set was finished roughly 20th January right? I expect this set today or tomorrow then. I mean it. You want to see this through, stick to your guns and get it fucking done. Really well planned though, I don't see anyone being told they can have an archetype yet, nor do I see you taking the bull by the horns and getting shit done.
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Post by Ash on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:54 pm

Impossible conditions? Are you kidding me?

Even the slightest bit of motivation would get this mini-set of yours done within 24 hours. Easily. I'm not trying to prove my point, I'm trying to convince people to see shit through and get stuff planned properly. This chaotic way of trying to progress is not one that will work for long.

Oh, I'm sorry for inconveniencing you with trying to bring some order to the otherwise chaotic state the CCG is in. I'll be sure not to give 2 fucks about this place in the future, because god forbid I should see more signs of this place falling apart, and disrupt your spontaneous terribly organized ideas with my "little topic"'s.
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Post by Ash on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:55 pm

Did you actually just delete your post? I need a fucking lie down, this crap is just infuriating me.

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Post by Seattleite on Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:36 pm

A slight delay is ok, no need to force some 24 hour limit.

And what I meant by the "topic" is since you want to impose your ideas, mine may be invalid.

buuuuut if we're doing it my way, i'll post a topic soon. It will contain # of archetypes by each person and a *suggestion* of 2 slots.
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Post by Ash on Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:05 pm

Right, just get these archetypes out of the way at least before we decide how we want to progress. Let's at least stop leaving things half-done.

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Post by Anime Girl References on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:32 pm

I encountered a similar problem during my time as a runner of a CCG. One of the main problems that did occur that wasn't addressed quickly enough was the Complacent Duelling Syndrome, where people would make cards that essentially did the same thing that the cards they made last time, did. It's like creating a new Effect Veiler the first set, then one with a slightly different effect next set, and one with a little less ATK the next set, and one with a different attribute the next set, on and on...

Eventually this would lead to a problem where one person was making cards that only they themselves would play, and only supported one type of play or strategy, and couldn't be placed into other decks. While in moderation (kind of like how Scheath makes cards) it doesn't happen this way since some of the other players will try out the theme and splash cards from that set into their own, but if the Complacent Duelling Syndrome occurs a bit too much everyone will just be ignoring everything else that comes out that they can't put into their own theme that they made, and play the same deck over and over.

This can also be drawn from another problem where making different variations of one card result in a lot of them becoming obsolete (Lightning Vortex with Lifepoint cost vs. Discard cost. vs. Tribute cost vs. Banish cost).

Now that the card stuff's out of the way, comes the whole Sets and the like, or who is entitled to release cards and themes and archetypes and what not.

Instead of large sets on a month/weekish basis, just allow for smaller sets to pump out with 3-5 cards a person before a larger set comes out. It may sound stupid at first, but with this in mind people have to be more conservative with what they are submitting, and it's easier to scan what gets pumped out and figure out what to do with it.

It's a lot more difficult to let broken cards pass through since there will be less to test with the other cards in the pool.

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