Transcending Curses (Self-Searching Traps)

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Post by Anime Girl References on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:12 am

|Transcending Cursenchanting|XXX|TRCR|Spell Card|Spell|Normal||||Select up to 3 "Transcending Curse" Trap Cards in your Graveyard and return them to the deck.|


|Transcending Curse of the Rotting Eyes|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Normal||||When you activate this card, declare 1 card name. Your opponent discards all copies of the declared card from their hand. When this card is sent to the Graveyard or resolves successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|

|Transcending Curse of Facetwisting|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Normal||||Negate the activation of a Effect Monster's effect until the End Phase. When this card is sent to the Graveyard or resolves successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|

|Transcending Curse of the Exploding Heart|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Normal||||Activate this card when your opponent Normal or Special Summons a monster. If that monster would declare an attack, it is destroyed after damage calculation. After this card is sent to the Graveyard or is resolved successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|

|Transcending Curse of Bonelock|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Normal||||Activate this card when your opponent would enter their Battle Phase. End the Battle Phase immediately. After this card is sent to the Graveyard or is resolved successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|

|Transcending Curse of Aimless Wandering|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Counter||||Activate only as Chain Link 3 or higher. All other card's effect(s) in the current chain become "This card is sent to the Graveyard." After this card is sent to the Graveyard or is resolved successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|

|Transcending Curse of Armor Leprosy|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Normal||||Reduce the ATK of 1 face-up monster on the field by half. After this card is sent to the Graveyard or is resolved successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|

|Transcending Curse of Forced Slumber|XXX|TRCR|Trap Card|Trap|Normal||||Flip 1 face-up monster on the field into face-down Defense Position. After this card is sent to the Graveyard or is resolved successfully, select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck and set it on the field.|
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Post by Seattleite on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:37 am

Ah, very nice. Looks like so much fun to play >=D

Only thing is, I can see how something like Transcending Curse of Forced Slumber when used in pure 3's could be just boss in a Nox deck, or something. 3 flips facedown right after another. Or Bonelock, 3 battle phases skipped right after another.

I guess this could be fixed by, "select 1 "Transcending Curse" Trap Card in your deck, except one with the same name as this card and set it on the field.
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Post by Anime Girl References on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:42 am

I would like to refrain from adding that to too many of them since that is one of the more effective strategies they have in place. While yeah, having a flip-down every turn would be good for Nox, is it a major problem to have that? I haven't found very many good flip-down cards. And the "end 3 Battle Phases immediately" thing I find useful to keep the opponent at bay until my monsters can come up with a solution since being swarmed in the face could lead to my demise.
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Post by Seattleite on Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:31 am

Darkest Hour wrote:I would like to refrain from adding that to too many of them since that is one of the more effective strategies they have in place. While yeah, having a flip-down every turn would be good for Nox, is it a major problem to have that? I haven't found very many good flip-down cards. And the "end 3 Battle Phases immediately" thing I find useful to keep the opponent at bay until my monsters can come up with a solution since being swarmed in the face could lead to my demise.

Nox have their facedown cards, and i'm sure snowy is thinking of more Wink Just that the chance of getting 3 is multiplied by 3 since they all search each other immediately, and you deckthin too by book of mooning everything is a problem, so that's why they need the "Other than this card" part.

Yes I do think end 3 battle phases will be a problem, like Swords. but multiplies chance by 3 and deckthins majorly. Even though swords might be fine here they all must be somewhat less powerful than ordinary traps because of that. Skipping 3 battle phases in total is fine but in succession (without the clause) would just have many decks running 3 copies of it just for the deck thinning and stall.

Transcending Curse of Armor Leprosy was changed, i see. It should be a less powerful version of shrink (since again shrink doesn't search copies of itself to be used continuously). Maybe "Decrease ATK by 700"? Since otherwise you would get 3 insta-wins in battle.

But all in all, I guess only Leprosy, Bonelock and Slumber only really need the "Other than this card" clause.
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Post by Anime Girl References on Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:33 am

Seattleite wrote:
Darkest Hour wrote:I would like to refrain from adding that to too many of them since that is one of the more effective strategies they have in place. While yeah, having a flip-down every turn would be good for Nox, is it a major problem to have that? I haven't found very many good flip-down cards. And the "end 3 Battle Phases immediately" thing I find useful to keep the opponent at bay until my monsters can come up with a solution since being swarmed in the face could lead to my demise.

Nox have their facedown cards, and i'm sure snowy is thinking of more Wink Just that the chance of getting 3 is multiplied by 3 since they all search each other immediately, and you deckthin too by book of mooning everything is a problem, so that's why they need the "Other than this card" part.

Yes I do think end 3 battle phases will be a problem, like Swords. but multiplies chance by 3 and deckthins majorly. Even though swords might be fine here they all must be somewhat less powerful than ordinary traps because of that. Skipping 3 battle phases in total is fine but in succession (without the clause) would just have many decks running 3 copies of it just for the deck thinning and stall.

Transcending Curse of Armor Leprosy was changed, i see. It should be a less powerful version of shrink (since again shrink doesn't search copies of itself to be used continuously). Maybe "Decrease ATK by 700"? Since otherwise you would get 3 insta-wins in battle.

But all in all, I guess only Leprosy, Bonelock and Slumber only really need the "Other than this card" clause.

I have yet to figure out exactly why deckthinning is bad if Exodia does not exist in this game, or Exodius the Ultimate Forbidden Lord or Chimeratech Overdragon, or Five-Headed Dragon. Reducing the amount of cards you have in your deck is not bad for the game at all since all it does is remove cards from the deck and increase the changes of some other unimportant cards to be drawn by 0.25% for each card. That's still less than 1% even if you searched out everything. Deck Manipulation may be bad (aka putting cards ontop of your deck and then drawing them or adding any card in your deck to your hand and whatnot) but Deck Thinning is hardly something to worry about. All in all it's a luck based number game that rarely comes into play unless you lose because of it and think of the term "lucksack".

The problem with thinking it's a "battle insta-win" is that it's trivial. Having your 3000 beater get reduced to 1500 and then ran over by a 1600 monster is hardly broken at all, it's a general component requirement needed to get rid of that monster. You may hate the fact that it happened, but you have to remember that big monsters are just as vulnerable to being killed as big ones. If you devoted your entire deck to getting that big monster out the least you could do is make sure that it doesn't get killed off in a few seconds. And be prepared when it does die.

Neither player really deserves to keep their strongest monster out on the field, regardless of how much resources it took to take it out, if it gets killed, it gets killed. If you happen to summon a card that powerful the least it could have is a backup plan, a survival tactic or effect defense. Your opponent will not be awed or shocked by the fact that you summoned an ultra-powerful monster. They will most likely be frustrated that they can't do crap to stop it and begin to hate it, especially if they have little chance of getting rid of it.

For the Forced Slumber, how about it just effect the opponent's monsters then? That would reduce the amount of Flip abuse it could use. Regardless of the fact that Nox are superpowerful with this card, it's a much needed type of effect negation and defense for most other decks that won't make it full-fledged removal or effect negation. I really don't like the Nox for holding such a stranglehold over flipdown cards and their effectiveness. So far there are almost no cards in this game that can resist this kind of effect, which is not my fault. Having a flipdown effect every turn isn't that overpowered at all generally, just very effective defense, which this game really lacks, since the majority of it is just stall, and not protection.

The difference between swords and Bonelock is the fact that Bonelock separates it's effects between two other cards, and Swords takes it's effect in only one, and will remain face-up on the field to be resent to the hand for reuse. Complaining about having a Negate Attack ready for 3 turns straight isn't very smart I would think, especially when there are cards who prevent card effects from being activated during the Battle Phase, negate traps completely, or can destroy them before even attacking, and having to activate this for 3 turns in order to get it's effects would take more deckspace than a Swords of Revealing light would.

There is nothing wrong with using Bonelock 3 turns in a row since your opponent will maintain advantage regardless. They don't lose any monsters, and they can still use effects. This just makes it so that Battle Phase driven effects and huge beatsticks don't kill you.

There is nothing wrong with using Armor Leprosy 3 turns in a row since this game lacks an effective shrinker anyway, and reducing the ATK of stronger monsters is one of the only ways that it's possible to kill them due to effects or support cards that would prevent card effects from killing them, while also reducing the ATK of some more annoying monsters ATK low enough so your weaker monsters can kill them.

There is nothing wrong with using 3 Forced Slumbers in a row unless Nox decide to get a stupidly overpowered upgrade that would make them metadominatingly broken with these effects. So far though, I don't seem the Nox as a major game problem even with these cards since they lack the overall power to end games in one turn. Even then, flipping an Effect Monster or ritual monster or whatever isn't stupidly broken, and kind of a neccessity where large synchros, chain summoners and "boss monsters" seem to dominate this place too (unfortunately), and where overall destruction would be too much for this kind of card.

And hell, Mirror Wall exists which completely kills off this entire set and prevents them from ever being effective, why not side that?
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Post by Seattleite on Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:00 am

Darkest Hour wrote:

I have yet to figure out exactly why deckthinning is bad if Exodia does not exist in this game, or Exodius the Ultimate Forbidden Lord or Chimeratech Overdragon, or Five-Headed Dragon. We may have them soon. Reducing the amount of cards you have in your deck is not bad for the game at all since all it does is remove cards from the deck and increase the changes of some other unimportant cards to be drawn by 0.25% for each card. That's still less than 1% even if you searched out everything. It's more than 1% because you'll have 34 cards to start out with after the first turn and factoring in you want to get 1 out of 3 cards in your deck, reduced by 2... I'm not good with probablility but i know it's more than 1%, and still that's not the only factor that makes these good. Deck Manipulation may be bad (aka putting cards ontop of your deck and then drawing them or adding any card in your deck to your hand and whatnot) but Deck Thinning is hardly something to worry about. All in all it's a luck based number game that rarely comes into play unless you lose because of it and think of the term "lucksack".

The problem with thinking it's a "battle insta-win" is that it's trivial. Having your 3000 beater get reduced to 1500 and then ran over by a 1600 monster is hardly broken at all, it's a general component requirement needed to get rid of that monster. Multiply that times 3.... You may hate the fact that it happened, but you have to remember that big monsters are just as vulnerable to being killed as big ones. If you devoted your entire deck to getting that big monster out the least you could do is make sure that it doesn't get killed off in a few seconds. And be prepared when it does die. Destruction doesn't come so easy here, not without a cost or a condition. Of course big monsters should be prepared to die, but you shouldn't have to prepare for a triple shrink in succession in which your opponent has a good chance of getting out.

Neither player really deserves to keep their strongest monster out on the field, regardless of how much resources it took to take it out, if it gets killed, it gets killed. If you happen to summon a card that powerful the least it could have is a backup plan, a survival tactic or effect defense . Your opponent will not be awed or shocked by the fact that you summoned an ultra-powerful monster. They will most likely be frustrated that they can't do crap to stop it and begin to hate it, especially if they have little chance of getting rid of it.
For the Forced Slumber, how about it just effect the opponent's monsters then? That would reduce the amount of Flip abuse it could use. Regardless of the fact that Nox are superpowerful with this card, it's a much needed type of effect negation and defense for most other decks that won't make it full-fledged removal or effect negation. I really don't like the Nox for holding such a stranglehold over flipdown cards and their effectiveness. So far there are almost no cards in this game that can resist this kind of effect, which is not my fault. Having a flipdown effect every turn isn't that overpowered at all generally, just very effective defense, which this game really lacks, since the majority of it is just stall, and not protection. Eh, ok. You've proven your point.

The difference between swords and Bonelock is the fact that Bonelock separates it's effects between two other cards, and Swords takes it's effect in only one, and will remain face-up on the field to be resent to the hand for reuse. Complaining about having a Negate Attack ready for 3 turns straight isn't very smart I would think, especially when there are cards who prevent card effects from being activated during the Battle Phase, negate traps completely, or can destroy them before even attacking, and having to activate this for 3 turns in order to get it's effects would take more deckspace than a Swords of Revealing light would. This is different than negate attack, because having 3 negate attack ready in your hand is taking up 3 slots of your hand. This Does take up less deckspace than swords since it is almost like having 37-38 cards in your deck with a few "skip the battle phases" in there. Swords is limited, so decks need to fill 2 more slots with something else.

There is nothing wrong with using Bonelock 3 turns in a row since your opponent will maintain advantage regardless. They don't lose any monsters, and they can still use effects. This just makes it so that Battle Phase driven effects and huge beatsticks don't kill you. Why is huge beatsticks the problem? What if your opponent is running a Control deck or Swarm deck and you are the one with the pants, picking off their monsters and they can't retaliate by picking off any of your monsters?

There is nothing wrong with using Armor Leprosy 3 turns in a row since this game lacks an effective shrinker anyway, and reducing the ATK of stronger monsters is one of the only ways that it's possible to kill them due to effects or support cards that would prevent card effects from killing them, while also reducing the ATK of some more annoying monsters ATK low enough so your weaker monsters can kill them. If we needed shrink, then we could make shrink. But again, the searching / advantage / deckspace involved makes this quite superior, and shrink no longer becomes something you can use to destroy a monster, it reproduces itself, killing 3, which is too much.

There is nothing wrong with using 3 Forced Slumbers in a row unless Nox decide to get a stupidly overpowered upgrade that would make them metadominatingly broken with these effects. So far though, I don't seem the Nox as a major game problem even with these cards since they lack the overall power to end games in one turn. Even then, flipping an Effect Monster or ritual monster or whatever isn't stupidly broken, and kind of a neccessity where large synchros, chain summoners and "boss monsters" seem to dominate this place too (unfortunately), and where overall destruction would be too much for this kind of card. Already agreed.

And hell, Mirror Wall exists which completely kills off this entire set and prevents them from ever being effective, why not side that? And if I run traps, that would ruin my deck too.
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Post by Anime Girl References on Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:39 pm

We may have them soon.

I must warn you, though, accepting them will bring no good to your CCG. Alternative win conditions based on cards in your hand, deck eaters, instant beatsticks and field sweepers will only make the games last 2-3 turns, and create a stranglehold on the game that will kill it dead once everyone gets sick of getting killed in 1 turn and the metagamers get sick of seeing the same strategy over and over again.

It's more than 1% because you'll have 34 cards to start out with after the first turn and factoring in you want to get 1 out of 3 cards in your deck, reduced by 2... I'm not good with probablility but i know it's more than 1%, and still that's not the only factor that makes these good.
In the end it's still gambling with numbers for no reason at all when the more effective measure would be to just search out the card and add it to your hand rather than predict what you would draw next. Even if you had a 25% chance to get the card you needed, the fact that you can't just get it now is hardly even something worth counting when 100% is far better, which is nearly impossible unless you use a topdecking deck or just sent EVERYTHING from your deck to the Graveyard except the card you wanted.

Pointless pseudoscientific number crunching.


Destruction doesn't come so easy here, not without a cost or a condition. Of course big monsters should be prepared to die, but you shouldn't have to prepare for a triple shrink in succession in which your opponent has a good chance of getting out.
Yes you should actually. While you can't prepare for everything, you SHOULD be aware of everything. It's like I said before, there are no perfect decks. Just because one strategy ruins a deck doesn't mean it's overpowered, broken or banworthy. Otherwise in the TCG, G.B. Hunter, Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo, Consecrated Light and Macro Cosmos would be limited or banned. Some decks can handle RFP and Destruction, some cannot handle ATK cutting. There are almost NO effective stat cutters that can keep a good weight on the field. Once you use it, it's gone, and the opponent can rebuild everything and go straight to wailing the fuck out of you again while you hope to draw another copy of said card. You know there are effective monster removers out there (IntTreaty), there are insta-killers (ScrapDestruction), monster stealers (Twin double crossers), swarmnukes (Phantom), but ATK cutters? Hahaha. Nothing worth worrying about. The thing about it is that it's a generally more balanced method of monster weakening. I don't have to destroy, remove from play or completely annul an opponent's monster and attack directly. I have to reduce it's ATK low enough to make it killable. That's about it. Even then, I still have to take the effort of destroying the monster by battle, and lo and behold, what if the monster WANTS to be destroyed by battle, or gains some benefit from being in the Graveyard? What happens if the attack is negated and the effect is wasted? What if they just tribute their monster? I doubt getting 3 of your monster's ATK cut in half is a game ender, nor is getting 1 monster's ATK cut 3 times in a row.

While yes, hitting Level 4 monsters with this effect would make it very effective, since you could bring a 1900 ATK monster down to 950, and if you felt like being a bad player and wasting more copies of it on their reduced monster you could bring it down to 475, and even 237.5. Tripling this effect could make a wonderous opening for a ton of damage. But think to yourself, you are wasting 3 cards for this semi-pointless display of power for absolutely nothing. Even sapping a 1500 ATK monster to absolute nothing is almost pointless when you consider how many cards you are wasting that should be saved for the more powerful ones.

This is different than negate attack, because having 3 negate attack ready in your hand is taking up 3 slots of your hand. This Does take up less deckspace than swords since it is almost like having 37-38 cards in your deck with a few "skip the battle phases" in there. Swords is limited, so decks need to fill 2 more slots with something else.

Hm, using Negate Attack or Swords is a bad example since they are generally inferior, clunky and slow cards and do completely different things, so scratch them. Let's address ending the Battle Phase immediately by itself. I have never seen a Negate Attack effectively become better than a Threatening Roar, which is Chainable and non-situational. Yes, you do get to replace Bonelock with another Bonelock if you need to, to prevent your opponent from running over your monsters. Yes, you can do this for 3 turns. But is it overpowered or too strong? No. I do not think so, and I also know so. Since this card's effect is divided amongst 3 different cards and be searched out from the deck, is one of the best possible things about this card. While this strange stalling effect can be annoying for attack-orientated opponents, swarming and defense decks will be laughing in it's face while it generates power from it's little monsters and using effects to fire off some effect damage or destroying your cards on the field. Stopping 3 battle phases in a row is really good. Overpowered? No, unless you are playing a Turbo deck, a beatdown deck or a direct attack deck, or a deck with absolutely no negation.

Why is huge beatsticks the problem? What if your opponent is running a Control deck or Swarm deck and you are the one with the pants, picking off their monsters and they can't retaliate by picking off any of your monsters?
I can't think of any good swarm decks in this CCG that would give two damns about having a monster get their ATK reduced and then get ran over, since they can quickly recover and fill the spot again with a fresh new monster. Control decks would be doing the exact same thing to you since most likely they would be using these cards too, since that's what the point of an ATK reducer is for anyway, as opposed to removal. About the only reason they would not like this card is because it would make it less easier to win or help prevent their opponent from gaining advantage over the opponent via having higher ATK, since nobody likes cards that make it so the opponent can gain advantage over you easier.

Either way, the problem with Spells and Traps is the fact that they are completely reliant on you being able to draw them and use them, and monsters can just search each other out and replace each other, while Spells and Traps cannot.
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Post by Seattleite on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:34 am

Alright, I guess atk-reducing effects should have a more competitive part of the game. Bonelock should be given a chance. And yes, I did read your entire essay Razz
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